kronin323
Font of Useless Knowledge
As some may know, I recently purchased a TB and have been digging around for some more info about the history of the product.
In doing so, I've found some people had some confusion about capacitors vs. rechargeable batteries, and I thought I'd share some useless knowledge on the subject. Many may already know this and many more may not care, but here ya go...
First off, the TB uses a Seiko Kinetic movement, which may look like an automatic mechanical watch (because of the weight spinning in the back) but is actually just a normal quartz movement with a rechargeable power source. I once posted a long, high-level explanation about different types of watch movements here, if you want to go down that hole...
WATCH This! | Page 7 | Oakley Forum
So, capacitor or rechargeable battery, what's the difference? Though they can be used interchangeably in a Kinetic, in other use cases only one or the other is appropriate and the tech is quite different.
A capacitor is purely a storage device for electricity. It's basically two electrodes separated by a dielectric insulator. You put a charge into it, it holds the charge, you release the charge.
A battery uses a chemical reaction to create an electric charge. With rechargeable ones, that reaction is reversible (reversible electrochemical intercalation).
When Seiko first released the Kinetic, the concept was a "battery-less" quartz watch, so using a capacitor fit that definition.
The Seiko Kinetic movement used in the TB is the 5M42. The capacitor had about a one week max power reserve.
But, as seen with the TB and the other Kinetic movements using capacitors, the capacitor ended up being a failure. They didn't test its long-term reliability and it ended up tending to leak and otherwise fail prematurely.
So, starting with the 5M6x movement family, Seiko stopped using capacitors and started using a LiOn rechargeable battery (outsourced from Maxell). They called it a "Kinetic Electricity Storage Unit" / Kinetic ESU to gloss over the fact that their "battery-less" watch was no longer battery-less.
The LiOn battery is much better, it has a max power reserve of up to six months in the 5Mxx movements. And, luckily, the 5M42 movement in the TB can have the capacitor retrofit with a LiOn battery with no problems.
There are some disadvantages to the LiOn battery, though - #1 is if you let it discharge completely, it will trash the battery and need to be replaced again.
The other is, with its greater capacity, it takes a lot more to charge it. With the old capacitor, it could be charged to its max reserve with about 1800 swings of the Kinetic movement. For the LiOn battery, it takes 24,000!
That's why traditional watch winders for automatic mechanical watches don't really work for Kinetics, not enough swings in a short enough period of time. A watch winder can help maintain a charge, but it's insufficient to recharge.
But, it can be recharged using electromagnetic induction, the "wireless" charging where you just place it against an induction charger instead of having to plug in wires.
Seiko once sold an induction charger for Kinetics but it was way overpriced. However, you can take another induction charger, such as one for a rechargeable toothbrush, and use it to recharge your TB, relatively quickly.
Bottom line, when you get the capacitor in your TB replaced, it's being replaced with a rechargeable battery.
The End. To those of you who actually read this entire thing, thanks for your attention. And sorry...
In doing so, I've found some people had some confusion about capacitors vs. rechargeable batteries, and I thought I'd share some useless knowledge on the subject. Many may already know this and many more may not care, but here ya go...
First off, the TB uses a Seiko Kinetic movement, which may look like an automatic mechanical watch (because of the weight spinning in the back) but is actually just a normal quartz movement with a rechargeable power source. I once posted a long, high-level explanation about different types of watch movements here, if you want to go down that hole...
WATCH This! | Page 7 | Oakley Forum
So, capacitor or rechargeable battery, what's the difference? Though they can be used interchangeably in a Kinetic, in other use cases only one or the other is appropriate and the tech is quite different.
A capacitor is purely a storage device for electricity. It's basically two electrodes separated by a dielectric insulator. You put a charge into it, it holds the charge, you release the charge.
A battery uses a chemical reaction to create an electric charge. With rechargeable ones, that reaction is reversible (reversible electrochemical intercalation).
When Seiko first released the Kinetic, the concept was a "battery-less" quartz watch, so using a capacitor fit that definition.
The Seiko Kinetic movement used in the TB is the 5M42. The capacitor had about a one week max power reserve.
But, as seen with the TB and the other Kinetic movements using capacitors, the capacitor ended up being a failure. They didn't test its long-term reliability and it ended up tending to leak and otherwise fail prematurely.
So, starting with the 5M6x movement family, Seiko stopped using capacitors and started using a LiOn rechargeable battery (outsourced from Maxell). They called it a "Kinetic Electricity Storage Unit" / Kinetic ESU to gloss over the fact that their "battery-less" watch was no longer battery-less.
The LiOn battery is much better, it has a max power reserve of up to six months in the 5Mxx movements. And, luckily, the 5M42 movement in the TB can have the capacitor retrofit with a LiOn battery with no problems.
There are some disadvantages to the LiOn battery, though - #1 is if you let it discharge completely, it will trash the battery and need to be replaced again.
The other is, with its greater capacity, it takes a lot more to charge it. With the old capacitor, it could be charged to its max reserve with about 1800 swings of the Kinetic movement. For the LiOn battery, it takes 24,000!
That's why traditional watch winders for automatic mechanical watches don't really work for Kinetics, not enough swings in a short enough period of time. A watch winder can help maintain a charge, but it's insufficient to recharge.
But, it can be recharged using electromagnetic induction, the "wireless" charging where you just place it against an induction charger instead of having to plug in wires.
Seiko once sold an induction charger for Kinetics but it was way overpriced. However, you can take another induction charger, such as one for a rechargeable toothbrush, and use it to recharge your TB, relatively quickly.
Bottom line, when you get the capacitor in your TB replaced, it's being replaced with a rechargeable battery.
The End. To those of you who actually read this entire thing, thanks for your attention. And sorry...