Chops Impact On Value

[CarGuy]

Skito has a WTB thread seeking VR28 black Juliet lenses for Ti02's. Kronin posed the question would chopped lenses chopped lenses affect collectability/ value and I ask the question here so we don't take Skito's thread sideways.
In this case would you care if the lenses were non-originals but still OEM chops? If not what case would you about? Would you feel slighted if you bought a pair with chops but were not aware in advance?
Just an open discusssion about the "legitimacy" of a pair with chops and impact on value.
Me, I'm OK with a pair with chops in a collectible frame. How about you?

 

[dragonvoi]

Depends, of course on cut quality, and if it's the right curvature, optically aligned, etc. if someone just cut lenses from something that fit, and is not the right curvature (which I can tell) and didn't disclose that I would discuss that with the source i got the glasses from. If it is a good quality cut from a desirable color-way, and it enhances the piece to my liking, it would be of additional value to me.

Thank goodness i don't care for polarized lenses. I know of a pair that I hated to wear because i believe they rotated the lens to make the etching fit making the polarization suck.

 

[kronin323]

Thanks carguy - I too was feeling uncomfortable posting that on a WTB thread...

Please allow me to elaborate on what carguy said:

For those of you looking to purchase a pair strictly for its collectability / as an example of the SKU, with all else being equal would you more highly value a pair that had the original lenses than a pair with proper custom cuts? How about a pair with OEM non-cut replacement lenses (assuming you knew they were replacements)? I'm talking about custom cuts / replacement lenses of the same color as the originals, attempting to restore the original colorway to maintain value.

And if the original colorway was polarized and the custom cuts lost the etching, how much would that matter, if at all?

To echo carguy, this isn't about which answer is right or wrong but just what the opinion is of y'all fine people.

 

[freakface]

i am all for keeping things stock as much as possible. especially with etched lenses (romeo, ducati juliets, finito, etc). but like dragonvoi, it would sorta piss me off if the seller did not disclose that the lenses were chopped and not factory cut oem. not all people who can chop lenses do a good job or even use the right curvatured lenses (like a romeo with custom cut dispatch lenses i saw awhile back). according to our chart on lens cutting, dispatch lenses are not correct in curvature for romeos. to majority of the buying public, they would not know the difference, but to us collectors, it puts the value down.
sorry to go off topic a bit but on another note, what about "upgraded" lenses? examples are juliet tio2 came with vr28. and ti juliets came with gold iridium. i got a tio2 with vr28 polarized and ti juliets with gold polarized. should this increase or degrade the value for collectors (since it is NOT true stock). opinions will really vary for sure....

 

[Carrera1963]

All about disclosure. As long as I know what I'm getting into, all is well. If it came as a surprise afterwards; if the quality is good, then the deal is still good; not so good and we'd be looking at discounts - I could still get a better chop done.

The only time it would really be a problem is if the lens is iconic for that model. JPPO or JPPLs without original, etched lenses for instance. If disclosed, I would buy knowing what I was getting into and price accordingly but if not, then I'd likely be wanting some cash back..

 

[Skito]

Personally I like to keep things as close to the original version as possible. Here in Germany we have a law for historic cars (25 years+): You can only get a discounted tax if a certain percentage of the car's part is still in original condition. To me this holds true for X-Metals.

After all we're collecting "A piece of history"

 

[dragonvoi]

depends in the piece. for instance, r1 fire plasma if advertised as first gen complete then it gets to me, and the fire lenses are more yellow than orange as first gens are supposed to be. i would place a higher value on a higher value in an original untouched specimen versus a reconditioned one.

 

[Carrera1963]

To an extent I agree Skitos. I like to have one example of a colourway that is absolutely stock. But that that means that any duplicate I get of that SKU is fair game for going custom.

I think polar for non-polar would be acceptable for me, certainly while on the search. Snap up the VR28 BIPs while they're still there - some of the OEM lenses are on back order and you have to wonder if they are on their way out.

 

[CarGuy]

Some fine points voiced here, several that I hadn't anticipated.
"Upgraded" lenses to me takes the color way from an original to a custom. Like Dragonvoi, I don't much care for Polars but some folks prefer them and others actually need them. To me, getting a pair of Ti02's and them having Polars would diminish the value. To others on the forum it might just increase the value.
Etching is a deal killer. If someone offered a pair of GS R2's without etching well then they are just a pair of carbon R2's. A Finito with non-etched chops (especially less box) is just another carbon. A pair of Ichiros less etching is just another polished (again especially less box). While some etched also had unique boxes, without etching they've lost much of what makes them unique like Carerra said. A Plasma Clear or Polished Clear less etching is just another pair, kblis.
Now when you get into early gen lenses like R1 fire and X serial Juliets it's the lenses that make up a lot of the mystique and I'd want to know about that in advance because in those cases lens tint is a good portion of what makes them sought after. If you wanted just a Ruby you'd get a last gen but if you want the unique hues of a first/second gen X serial then chops won't suffice. BT chops which come very close just don't have the purple even though you can cut out the fire and get rid of that. But you can't put the purple in.
I agree with Skito that a NOS pair of lenses would be optimal but at a point - maybe this one - there may not be any more left out there. To me, for like the example of a non-hue sensitive pair like his VR28 BI, chops to me suffice just fine. They're still OEM blanks and OEM optics, just chopped at a different location.
Speaking of chops and blanks I just got a pair of BI blanks from QTrain to use for Medusa goggle replacements and the blanks look almost the exact same size. I wonder if they merely used blanks in these? That's another thread...

 

[Ecko]

To me it would effect the value. Original is original. Having a replacement of unequal would lower value to me. I would still buy and use chopped lens but the source needs to have high credit. I also think it would be ridiculous to not inform a buyer the lenses were not original. Which happened to me from a member. Was not even cut lens to make things worse.