Paint/Protection

[Hando]

Hey,

Just curious for anybody that customizes their own stuff... What paint type do you prefer to use, and what kind of coating do you use to protect that. I know sweat can destroy acrylics and other type of paints.

If you use some sort of clear coat, do you just spray it on, bake it on, what?

Also, any suggestions for the cheapest way to go about customizing some frogskins? I know the blackout frames are pretty cheap, but would the gloss need to be stripped first? Or does someone have a hookup on some matte frames?

Any advice/help would be appreciated.

 

[slamriffer]

I think so - paint: ceracote (+baking), duracoat (+hardner), powdercoat (+baking), hydrodip. For protection: matte/flat clear acrylic finish. Work with glossy frame: first you need to remove the gloss by small grit sandpaper, then degrease, then apply primer, then apply paint, finish. Not sure, that sweat can damage acrylic paint) - partially incorrect, so better read what Dr.Chop say.

 

[ericforman]

I've read that you don't need primer on plastic. I haven't quite painted my first pair yet, but I am waiting for my paint and clear coat. I've actually been talking to someone about this recently. He told me he uses Createx paint and gloss topcoat that is made for cars that you can get at NAPA. He hasn't found anything he likes for matte topcoat. But yeah a 180 grit sandpaper should be good to rough the surface up with

 

[dr.chop]

This is all info that is not correct. The person using createx is using the wrong paint. It is a textile driven paint as createx has a different division for the other types of applications (auto air and wicked), but also require a whole different learning curve to apply properly. This is the KEY! Properly. I have and use createx, on R/C cars, not on shades.

Sandpaper will only introduce Valleys and gouges into the surface, requiring vast amounts of material to fill them. Anything you are buying at an auto parts store for paint certainly won't hold up to what the body throws at it. Even the best products out there will fail if not cared for. Trust me.

Cerakote does have both air cure and oven cure, where air is a single stage material and oven is a 2 part like an epoxy. Acrylic clear as it is commonly referred to, or Krylon is junk, so put the can down and step away.

Just like house paint and car paint, there is good, bad, cheap, expensive, skilled painters, and hacks.

I say it quite simply, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. It isn't. Try trashing a $300 pair of shades, you will learn real quick.

Anyone saying use 180 grit sand paper and you don't need primer is crazy. Plastic sucks to get paint to adhere properly. Ask any good body shop. You want Earl scheib $100 job on your car or a quality finish?

The topic of sweat is a funny one. You think sweat won't hurt paint? OK. Anyone out there an athlete or work in say hot, sweaty outdoor environments? Ever see what happens to lenses that have constant sweat contact? Ya, ugly. De-lamination. The peeling of the layers of lens coatings from the base lens material. Think of sweat like a salted winter road. Not too friendly on a car's paint, undercarriage, or any metal surface. Sweat is no different. Factory Oakley finishes desolve over time from constant contact, especially the older matte finishes before they were molded. For those who want to screw around and play with their own stuff, feel free. You want to do something to someone else's and accept any payment, you better damn sure do it right. Half assed is worse than not at all.

I have posted and said it several times before, but I'll say it again. Just to try to get the ok stuff to spray your shades would cost roughly $140 +/- to do it half assed. That's Harbor Freight junk compressor and airbrush, small quantities of good paint, and a solid clear coat. That's about as cheap as possible. If it sounds like I get wound up, we'll, I do. Nothing worse than seeing people spread bad advice and get discouraged or worse, ruin stuff. I have fixed tons of mess ups, it happens. But I take what I do seriously. I promise I am not the fastest, no doubt about it, but I turn out a solid product that will last. I would never put out a piece that is sub par just to speed it up. Paint, cerakote, etc all have time frames in which things are done in order for things to work properly. Solvent based paints have to Gas out, cerakote has to cure, and waterbased/waterborne have to dry. There is NO WAY AROUND It, and screwing with the process yields a sub par end product.

 

[ericforman]

Always good to hear from someone with lots of experience. Are there any paints that you would recommend that would work without having to mix? And what do you use for primer on clear frames?

 

[Hando]

Doc,
Good stuff, do you have a favored clear coat/varnish/sealant?

I'm very very very familiar with acrylic paints.. and that's why I mentioned that sweat can destroy it. I've had about 20 years of experience modeling and what notting. I really want top quality to protect. I don't use cheap anything as it is, but I do not have a clear coat. I've got a great airbrush setup.

Also, I know you've done some glow in the dark stuff. Do you use the powder or the paints? And got any recommendations for brands?

So...
What brand of clear coat do you like best?
Got a recommendation for glow in the dark?

 

[dr.chop]

I use House Of Kolor dominately at the moment. Paint, components, clears, etc. Although I have begun using a new product for clear coats that is leaps and bounds more durable than anything out there. By durable, I mean I literally tested it yesterday by hammering an ear stem I simply scuffed and cleared. No prep, no cleaning, just scuff, mix, and spray. Let me simply say this: I dare you to find a better product for absolute durability.

With that said, I say for the average person, it is tough finding a system that is easy. Sure there are enamels out there that won't require a clear, but you won't get that wet look shine, and it won't stay shiny as it is when fresh without having to actually wax and polish it. You can use lacquers, but they yellow over time and also crack and have inherent issues. To me, nothing beats a solid urethane finish. Super clear, super wet looking, and damn durable. Problem though, is it is damn sensitive. To everything. Heat, cold, humid, dry, and everything in between. Not as an end user, but for the applicator. Rattle can 2k clear is available, but won't ever look as good as one sprayed by a gun, plus it is costly, only has a small window of time for use before being junk because the hardener will simply harden...

Glow in the dark is also tough. Not many pigments out there, not all are easy to work with, and most don't last long when charged, or just fade out from sun exposure for long durations. Double edged sword. See, I am a person who is constantly trying new things to stay ahead of the curve. As for what I use, it again, is mainly house of kolor. Just a damn solid, well proven system that simply works and is versatile. Cheap, no, but there isn't anything damn near you can't do. I blend most of my own colors anymore to achieve what someone wants also. Just my Forte... I am. Great with seeing colors and mixing what I want if what I have isn't exactly what I need lol.

To further address the sand paper thing above real fast, think of this: when you grab some 180 or even 320 and start on your chunk of wood, plastic, etc, it leaves significant scratches. You wouldn't simply paint, stain, or varnish over that...take a pair, sand with 180,and spray black over them... Gonna show every single flaw possible cuz that's what black does. Great looking when glossy or satin and smooth, but horrible when flaws are present.

 

[Hando]

I never liked Enamel anything, it's so much harder to work with and a lot less forgiving. Just as easy to strip though.

I got your Tangelo Eye Jackets from a trade, and there is quite a bit of chipping in the paint, were you using a different clear coat back then or is that not the House of Kolor paints? If you got the brand name of the one you're using now, that would be awesome and I'm sure we would love you forever. Do you bake, or is it just spray and wait?

Isn't 180 grit pretty...gritty? Wouldn't something closer to a 600 be better, or is 600 the really gritty stuff? I don't think I'm going to use any sandpaper honestly after listening to you here and reading through the DIY forum.

I hope this isn't coming off as someone trying to jump into your line of work, cause I'm certainly not. I just want something to do with my airbrush. I've been painting GW models for exactly 23 years and thought the change of medium could be a lot of fun. Plus.. after looking at all the diy posts, I want my own MODA3/Atmos clone.

 

[dr.chop]

I never liked Enamel anything, it's so much harder to work with and a lot less forgiving. Just as easy to strip though.

I got your Tangelo Eye Jackets from a trade, and there is quite a bit of chipping in the paint, were you using a different clear coat back then or is that not the House of Kolor paints? If you got the brand name of the one you're using now, that would be awesome and I'm sure we would love you forever. Do you bake, or is it just spray and wait?

Isn't 180 grit pretty...gritty? Wouldn't something closer to a 600 be better, or is 600 the really gritty stuff? I don't think I'm going to use any sandpaper honestly after listening to you here and reading through the DIY forum.

I hope this isn't coming off as someone trying to jump into your line of work, cause I'm certainly not. I just want something to do with my airbrush. I've been painting GW models for exactly 23 years and thought the change of medium could be a lot of fun. Plus.. after looking at all the diy posts, I want my own MODA3/Atmos clone.

The tangelo eye jackets were done 7 years ago and no clue how many hands they have passed through. Not sure of attempted lens swaps and what not, but yes, clear was different then. It was DuPont, and still a very high grade automotive urethane clear. Where is the chipping and do you have pix? Chips and peeling are 2 completely different animals. Chips occur from impact mainly. Drops, bangs, direct hits, etc. Peeling occurs from improper prep or failure of material. Chips also happen and are very common in lens swaps as so forth, especially when people have no idea what they are doing and just get too aggressive. I have chopped tons in less swaps, but that was a lesson learned the hard way by trying to put lenses in too early.

As far as the tangelo goes, it is the same and I actually have the same bottle of color used on em lol. Clear is House Of Kolor and the new one, but I won't say what that is. If you are doing models and using sand paper to prep for paint, you should reconsider lol. On a rusty car, sure, on a surface that needs leveling, absolutely... On a factory fresh surface, bad choice. I won't expound on that any further just because there are people out there who have, do, and continually knock off things I do as well as others and learning is the expensive and time consuming part of the process lol. That's why good body shops charge thousands, and cramps ones charges hundreds. The pic below was shared by a serious bada$$ in the airbrush art world, and it speaks volumes. View attachment 4142

 

[Hando]

Never said I use sand paper.

I was actually hoping for some advice. Didn't really need a lecture.. or a symposium on how great and wonderful you are man. I give you your credit, I'm very impressed with your work. I saw your argument with Colorado Customs the other day and fully support your side of things.

I was just trying to do something fun, not for profit, not something that would attempt to cut into your profit.