Golden Rule #8

[Oakster]

It's an impossible rule to enforce as there isn't really any way to control what is scalping.

I think everyone on here just needs to pay attention and be fair (and maybe call the odd person out). Anyone that's been on here for a while could probably be accused of "scalping" depending on the interpretation of the rule. Any deal on here should be "gentlemanly" so if you don't feel like that's happening then just don't buy.

 

[the_owl]

I dont follow EVERY sale thread that takes place. But as you know if there is an issue with a particular thread, post, or comment, then maybe the "report" button should be used or better yet, contact boss or myself and we will gladly look into it. If you continuously see something why not alert us? I may miss something, or be working behind the scenes on another issue. If a Mod is doing something in a sale thread that appears to be a rule violation, please by all means send boss a PM. Why create a thread complaining about something when by not reporting it it may go unnoticed...


For the rest of the forum:
I will leave this thread open as to positive outlook to conversation. It will not be a slam session of this forum or any member. Thanks!

I started a thread for the reason I listed in the first post, To see if anyone else was noticing it. I honestly dont think Ive ever seen this rule enforced. So maybe im questioning its effectiveness

 

[xmetalmaniac]

I started a thread for the reason I listed in the first post, To see if anyone else was noticing it. I honestly dont think Ive ever seen this rule enforced. So maybe im questioning its effectiveness

It has been enforced before many times. Issue one is we don't advertise to the entire forum how we deal with situations involving a member who has violated a rule. Issue two is if you see a rules violation why not report it or bring it to someone's attention so that it is not over looked and it will be reviewed at that time. If you see a rule you think should be enforced then let someone know, don't just sit back and count them as they occur, then create a thread questioning its effectiveness. That's my point, we miss stuff but when it's brought to our attention we will handle it. Same goes for flame wars which may occur for 25-30 posts before someone PM's us, "@" us or texts us and lets us know. Members like yourself seeing this, should report it.

 

[kronin323]

In light of continuing, positive discussion about the topic...

IMHO:

I believe this rule, like most of the rules here, is subject to theory vs. practice and spirit of the rule vs. letter of the rule.

The biggest disconnect I see with newbies looking to use the exchange is the fact that this forum is not primarily a marketplace. It is a discussion forum, a community, that happens to offer a marketplace for its members. A marketplace that has grown very large and popular... And these rules are designed to help prevent some of the "caveat emptor" abuses you see on the bay and elsewhere. But some just don't get it; they just see the marketplace as a marketplace and don't understand why there are restrictions; they miss the forest through the trees.

But anyway - remember, there's nothing in the rules that requires one to sell at a similar price for which an item was acquired or forbidding making a profit from a sale. I'm not defending the practice of scalping; it's against the rules for a good reason. Someone who's sole motivation for being on this forum is to take advantage of its members to turn a profit violates the spirit of this forum and should be censured.

But there's also a grey area. Valuation is really an eye-of-the-beholder thing. If a proper, true member of this community happened to stock up on an item that quickly becomes valued at a higher price, should he be forced to sell at a price closer to for what he acquired them? That member may choose to do so, but no, I don't believe they have to. But if it's his sale price that's setting the new value, is that scalping? Maybe. Or maybe not. I think it depends on the situation. Again, it comes down to the spirit of the rule vs. the letter of the rule.

As a community, though, I believe the enforcement of the rules falls primarily on us members trying to follow them, not so much on those trying to break them. For example, let's say a newbie without exchange access makes a discussion post saying they're looking to sell a particular item. There's nothing preventing a member from contacting that newbie privately and completing a transaction outside of the exchange; the mods have better things to do than "Big Brother" monitor all of our PMs. And that example does happen; you can't prevent newbies from making a post like that - you can report it and have it deleted, but the cat's already out of the bag. The only thing you can do is refuse to participate in that sort of behavior yourself; if another member doesn't, that's a failure of their ethics, not yours.

And I believe the same applies to scalping - sure, you can and should report it to the mods, but the best thing the community can do is, instead of interpreting lack of mod action as implicit permission, just refuse to do business with a scalper.

Another example of theory vs. practice; spirit vs. letter - discussion-type posts in sale threads. Against the rules, and for a good reason. I learned that one the hard way and now typically try to follow it. But I know some members here who don't mind, or even sometimes encourage, discussion in their sales threads. So I don't hesitate to make such a post in one of their sale threads, and it causes no problems. But I only know that because we are both active discussion members in the community, not just a couple of Johns on the exchange.

IMHO...

 

[the_owl]

The biggest, blatant abuse are threads like this:
"Ended up with two of these BNIB, $300 or trade for Xmetal"
Usually a week after buying/sold out. To me this is the definition of scalping here. Not that I havent done this myself. Just not here. I already dont do business with a handful of members here.Not going to call anyone out in a thread.
Im not here to police this forum. If the mods (who are just as active if not more active than myself) let it pass, then im not going to complain. I feel I do my part about reporting spam. If mods are able to see the number of spam threads Ive reported, then they know.
I realize some of the mods (one at least) makes a living doing this. which could be a conflict of interest, but im not really concerned about it either way. I was hoping boss would ring in since its his site

 

[Low_Speed]

I don't know. If I buy something here or anywhere I must be ok with the price. It isn't like it's food or water and were in the middle of Katrina.

Just never been a fan of scalping being illegal except on items nessasary to live like food and water during an emergency.

 

[OakleyBoss]

In light of continuing, positive discussion about the topic...

IMHO:

I believe this rule, like most of the rules here, is subject to theory vs. practice and spirit of the rule vs. letter of the rule.

The biggest disconnect I see with newbies looking to use the exchange is the fact that this forum is not primarily a marketplace. It is a discussion forum, a community, that happens to offer a marketplace for its members. A marketplace that has grown very large and popular... And these rules are designed to help prevent some of the "caveat emptor" abuses you see on the bay and elsewhere. But some just don't get it; they just see the marketplace as a marketplace and don't understand why there are restrictions; they miss the forest through the trees.

But anyway - remember, there's nothing in the rules that requires one to sell at a similar price for which an item was acquired or forbidding making a profit from a sale. I'm not defending the practice of scalping; it's against the rules for a good reason. Someone who's sole motivation for being on this forum is to take advantage of its members to turn a profit violates the spirit of this forum and should be censured.

But there's also a grey area. Valuation is really an eye-of-the-beholder thing. If a proper, true member of this community happened to stock up on an item that quickly becomes valued at a higher price, should he be forced to sell at a price closer to for what he acquired them? That member may choose to do so, but no, I don't believe they have to. But if it's his sale price that's setting the new value, is that scalping? Maybe. Or maybe not. I think it depends on the situation. Again, it comes down to the spirit of the rule vs. the letter of the rule.

As a community, though, I believe the enforcement of the rules falls primarily on us members trying to follow them, not so much on those trying to break them. For example, let's say a newbie without exchange access makes a discussion post saying they're looking to sell a particular item. There's nothing preventing a member from contacting that newbie privately and completing a transaction outside of the exchange; the mods have better things to do than "Big Brother" monitor all of our PMs. And that example does happen; you can't prevent newbies from making a post like that - you can report it and have it deleted, but the cat's already out of the bag. The only thing you can do is refuse to participate in that sort of behavior yourself; if another member doesn't, that's a failure of their ethics, not yours.

And I believe the same applies to scalping - sure, you can and should report it to the mods, but the best thing the community can do is, instead of interpreting lack of mod action as implicit permission, just refuse to do business with a scalper.

Another example of theory vs. practice; spirit vs. letter - discussion-type posts in sale threads. Against the rules, and for a good reason. I learned that one the hard way and now typically try to follow it. But I know some members here who don't mind, or even sometimes encourage, discussion in their sales threads. So I don't hesitate to make such a post in one of their sale threads, and it causes no problems. But I only know that because we are both active discussion members in the community, not just a couple of Johns on the exchange.

IMHO...

This is pretty accurate. This topic comes up every few months, but truthfully Kronin is right where it comes to theory vs practice, specifically around scalping.

Prices are determined by the market, we do shy away from scalping, but who says what that exactly is? The value of an object is what someone is willing to pay. Supply and demand dictate prices. Rare items are sold for more, its the way markets operate. Sure, we would love to end all markups, but all it does is simply drive away people.

If we attempted to enforce every sale that was for more than the original retail price, I'm not sure any pairs would be for sale here. Yes I understand we would like to keep exchange areas clean, safe and respectable but as I said this becomes very difficult to for scalping. At the end of the day, it is up to buyers. If someone posts a pair on here for a big markup, and no one buys it, that is how you deter scalping. But, we do want those pairs, and are willing to pay those prices, therefore establishing a value(so is it scalping?).

As for members outside exchange areas, we strongly enforce this since it posses a direct threat to the safety of deals on the site. The criteria established is to reduce bad deals and scammers on the site. Of course there is a delay between when someone posts a thread, and a mod see's it or it is reported by a member, so it does take some time. During that period, it ultimately is up to the community to report the thread, and not engage the seller. Obviously this doesn't always happen before we can delete the thread, but that is your choice. When someone's first post is trying to sell a pair, you never know who you are dealing with.

I moved this thread to Forum Rules/Help/Suggestions and we can discuss it more if you wish.